Evanilson
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os que ele matou eram todos da mesma raça dos orcs e lagartixas
REVOLUÇÃO
There are certainly problems with those who wish to idealize Guevara without properly understanding all that he did, but you have asked about three specific claims often made by those who oppose Guevara and his ideology, so I'll try to stick to those for the body of the post, and perhaps make some larger statements about how "el Che" is viewed and why he seems unique in his image. Was Che Guevara a murderer? Did he hate gay people? If he did hate gay people, did he act on that to repress them? Was he racist? If so, did he act on racism? I would say that each of these major claims (Guevara was not just a killer but a murderer, Guevara killed/oppressed gay people, Guevara was a racist) are lacking in historical evidence, but that there is a clear source for each claim that can help us understand something larger (and hopefully better) about Guevara and the revolutions in which he fought.
Was Che a racist?
The answer to this question relies upon a follow-up: When?
From the diary that Ernesto wrote before he was Che, before he was a communist, when he was only 24, and when he had just made significant contact with blacks for the first time (Argentina being overwhelmingly white), we can draw the following passages.
These are the oft-quoted passages used to establish Guevara's prejudice, and they are undoubtedly racist, and completely typical for an Argentinian professional of his time. It is safe to say, historically speaking, that the 24-year-old Guevara was in fact a racist. However, with further experience and his conversion to Marxism, Guevara became a committed anti-racist and anti-imperialist.
In his 1964 address to the United Nations, Guevara said the following.
Cementing his unique role in history as a revolutionary leader who won his revolution, yet left the land he could rule to fight until the death making revolutions all over the world, Guevara eventually moved on to fight as a "revolutionary adviser" to rebels in the Congo. This demonstrates his belief that the peoples of Latin America, Africa, and Asia had to join together in order to break the back of Western imperialism. While in the Congo, however, Guevara became disillusioned with the rebels he had joined, and wrote frustratedly of their lack of discipline and attempted to impose a strict order, based upon his successful experience, and for these comments and actions, some have claimed that Guevara had demonstrated that he felt himself superior to black Africans. However, I find this to be an inadequate analysis; it would be more accurate to say that Guevara was frustrated with any revolutionary group that did not observe strict discipline, and would have spoken harshly to any such group.
Given the lack of evidence for any statements of racism after he became a communist revolutionary, the hardline anti-racist stance of his ideology, his role in the Cuban Revolution that guaranteed the full rights of Afro-Cubans, and his public statements in support of the struggles of blacks in the United States and South Africa, it is safe to say that by the time he became internationally renown, Che Guevara was no racist.
Did Che hate gay people?
This is a difficult one. I can't recall if Guevara ever wrote anything specifically on homosexuality, and I'm not aware of him taking any actions to repress or harm gays. However, it is certain that Guevara contributed to the culture of machismo that made the repression of homosexuals possible in Cuba.
Cuban society had been strongly homophobic for so long as there had been public awareness of a homosexual community, and the Revolution, though promising progress in almost every sector of society for almost every repressed group, did nothing to combat discrimination against LGBT Cubans for the first two decades of its rule, and the government under Fidel Castro even worsened things in some regards, by decrying homosexuality as bourgeois and decadent and enforcing new anti-homosexual laws. The prospects of LGBT Cubans were worsened after it was discovered that several groups of gay men had entered the pay of the CIA in counterrevolutionary activities, a crime that was unfortunately generalized to all gay Cubans by many.
The Cuban government required all men to serve a term in the military, but those who would not serve (Jehovah's Witnesses, conscientious objectors) and those who were not allowed to serve (gay men) instead did their terms of service in agricultural camps, as a part of "Military Units to Aid Production" (UMAP). The idea was for non-combatants to still strengthen the revolution, domestically. Things quickly got out of hand and these became downright abusive, a mark of the repression LGBT Cubans faced even after the Revolution. Those serving in these domestic military camps were beaten, worked long hours, and, for all their service, were viewed with the mar of the "decadent". To describe these as "concentration camps" would be going too far, as their primary function was as a replacement for mandatory military service, but they sometimes got dangerously close to that categorization.
Around three years after these camps were established, several concerned guards informed Fidel Castro of the abuses taking place within these camps. Curious, Fidel went under cover as a gay man into one of them at night, and revealed himself as a guard was about to beat him the next morning. Following Castro's visit, and the undercover visits of 100 heterosexual Communist Youth following Fidel's example, the UMAP camps were shut down. However, new camps, under a similar purpose, were established. Though they did not reach the levels of abuse of the UMAP camps, they were often still unequally harsh in treatment compared to what faced those serving in normal positions in the military.
While the idea of the domestic support division of the military wasn't to repress gay men, that was certainly the effect. At the time, Castro said that, while the camps were out of hand, they were better than what gay men would suffer in the military. However, he has since taken personal responsibility for the horrid treatment of LGBT Cubans at the hands of the cult of machismo. The camps are long since gone. In 1979, Cuba's slow march forward in the arena of LGBT rights began. Today, gay Cubans do serve in the military, there are more equal rights, sex change operations are covered by universal medical care, and transgender Cubans have been elected to the government.
This question wasn't about Cuba, it was about Che, but there isn't really much to say about Guevara here. The aforementioned camps didn't open until Che was gone to fight revolutions in the Congo and Bolivia, having stepped down from all government positions. Would he have spoken out against them? Would he have followed Fidel into the camps? Would he have stood by Castro in continuing the repressions? As a historian, I have little grounds to speculate there. Guevara certainly didn't go out of his way to speak in favor of homosexuals and trans people, when he was speaking out in favor of other oppressed groups. So was Che a homophobe? I don't know, but he certainly did contribute to a culture of machismo.
So, was Che a murderer?
I would say that the answer here depends upon your conception of the charge of murder. Is killing a soldier in battle or an agent of the government you are at war with considered murder? Is the death penalty murder? Is shooting deserters, traitors, murderers, or rapists within your own ranks murder? If you answer yes to any of these, you may call Guevara a murderer. If you answer no, I would argue that there is no evidence to accuse Guevara of murder.
In Cuba, and in the Congo, and in Bolivia, Guevara was certainly both directly and indirectly responsible for the deaths of soldiers, police, and other agents of the governments against which he fought. Guevara, as a Marxist-Leninist, certainly believed in the necessity of violent struggle.
It is important, I think, to understand why Guevara held this belief. Prior to meeting with Cuban exiles in Mexico and joining the invasion of Batista's Cuba on the Granma with the Castros and other revolutionaries, Che Guevara had spent time living in Guatemala. In 1950, President Jacobo Árbenz was popularly elected on the promise of a land reform program, meant to remedy some of the ills of colonial and foreign domination of Guatemalan land and resources. Setting about this land reform, Árbenz's government began to seize unworked land owned by large landowners, compensating them at the values they had stated for their property on their taxes. This threatened the profits of the United Fruit Company (now Chiquita), who owned wide swaths of fallow land, the value of which it had been understating for decades to avoid taxation. The head of the CIA and Secretary of State in the U.S. both happened to be on the board of United Fruit (in addition to being brothers), and orchestrated a U.S.-backed campaign of terror and violence to overthrow the democratically elected government and replace it with a military dictatorship. Successive regimes maximized profits for multinational corporations while, in collaboration with the United States, violently suppressed dissent, as in the Mayan Genocide in the 1980s.
Guevara was in Guatemala City for the coup, and initially sought to resist it. However, he found workers' groups under-armed and under-prepared. Publicly known to be a leftist who had resisted the coup, Guevara fled the country. Just as the coup shaped his disillusionment with liberal democracies, the state of the working class convinced him that for progress to be secure, the workers and other lower classes must be armed. Guevara had not emerged from Argentina one day convinced that violence was the only way. He had seen a popular leader make some headway, and then seen him brutally overthrown and a repressive regime installed by the owning class. This disillusionment would be mirrored in much of Latin America two decades later, after the 1973 coup against the Chilean government of Salvador Allende.
However, I think that killing your enemies in war is generally understood by most people to be different from killing innocents in cold blood. It is this latter accusation that is implied when one calls Guevara a murderer.
Following the triumph of the Cuban Revolution in 1959, Guevara was assigned for a time to oversee the prison at La Cabaña. His duties involved overseeing the executions of those convicted of war crimes at the prison. Because of this duty, Guevara is sometimes called the "Butcher of La Cabaña" in the Cuban ex-pat community. The revolutionary government claimed to be basing its trials for war crimes upon the international precedent set by the Nuremberg Trials. The process consisted of two tribunals, one of which tried civilians and one of which tried members of Batista's military. Only the latter could order an execution for those convicted of war crimes. Guevara's role, like that of governors in the United States, consisted of reviewing the verdicts, offering pardons, and setting execution dates. Guevara remained assigned to this role for several months, during which he oversaw between 55 and 105 executions.
On the popularity of the execution of war criminals, and on the role of Guevara in the process, historian Paco Ignacio Taibo II writes in Guevara, Also Known as Che,
On the quality of polls in Cuba at the time, Carmelo Mesa-Lago argues in "Availability and Reliability of Statistics in Socialist Cuba (Part One") that before the Bay of Pigs (1961), they were generally free and objective. The above poll would have taken place in 1959.
Whether or not you believe Guevara was a murderer should depend upon your judgement of war and the practice of executing war criminals, rather than upon unfounded accusations that Guevara massacred innocents.
Eu não conheço bem o gajo mas dizem que anda por aí um tipo que tem a informação toda que existe no mundo e sob todos os pontos de vista. Gugle ou Google ou lá como se chama. Faz-lhe perguntas.
O Che era um sanguinário e doido varrido. Viciado em guerras
Peço desculpa a todos por este comentário que só reparei agora! Um gajo reúne-se com amigos de infância e as brincadeiras continuam a ser infantis fdx. Fui à casa de banho e deixei o telemóvel em cima da mesa. Rstamos de direta e bêbedos se isso serve de desculpa.
A opinião sobre Che Guevara será sempre influenciada por quem olha.
A verdade é que o objetivo dele sempre foi a de libertar povos ocupados pelas nações do velho continente. Eu consigo separar um idealista como Che de um ditador como Fidel. Também consigo compreender que o que damos na escola como descobrimentos, não foi mais que uma colonização genocida das populações nativas em vários continentes, e a submissão dos restantes às práticas e crenças que os europeus levaram para poderem controlar o território e explorar uma mão de obra barata para recursos raros. Como também consigo ajuizar que grande parte das ditaduras que existiram na América do Sul e Médio Oriente no último século tiveram mão dos Estados Unidos, para benefício próprio e da economia americana e que, por afinidade económica e militar, também beneficiou a Europa.
Ou seja, no fundo sou um hipócrita, porque sou contra essa exploração dos países subdesenvolvidos, mas beneficio dela. Em boa verdade, somos quase todos. Há quem reconheça isso, mas há também quem prefira a versão imperialista do mundo em que o egocentrismo governa e que certifica termos direito a explorar essas vidas, porque somos mais que eles.
Quanto ao Evanilson, eu ontem marcava mais golos que ele. Não sei o que fazem nos treinos, mas parece que os avançados vão perdendo capacidade de finalização quanto mais jogam no nosso clube.
A verdade é que o objetivo dele sempre foi a de libertar povos ocupados pelas nações do velho continente. Eu consigo separar um idealista como Che de um ditador como Fidel. Também consigo compreender que o que damos na escola como descobrimentos, não foi mais que uma colonização genocida das populações nativas em vários continentes, e a submissão dos restantes às práticas e crenças que os europeus levaram para poderem controlar o território e explorar uma mão de obra barata para recursos raros. Como também consigo ajuizar que grande parte das ditaduras que existiram na América do Sul e Médio Oriente no último século tiveram mão dos Estados Unidos, para benefício próprio e da economia americana e que, por afinidade económica e militar, também beneficiou a Europa.
Ou seja, no fundo sou um hipócrita, porque sou contra essa exploração dos países subdesenvolvidos, mas beneficio dela. Em boa verdade, somos quase todos. Há quem reconheça isso, mas há também quem prefira a versão imperialista do mundo em que o egocentrismo governa e que certifica termos direito a explorar essas vidas, porque somos mais que eles.
Quanto ao Evanilson, eu ontem marcava mais golos que ele. Não sei o que fazem nos treinos, mas parece que os avançados vão perdendo capacidade de finalização quanto mais jogam no nosso clube.
O evanilson é a reencarnação do Che Guevara?
Não estava à espera desta..
Não estava à espera desta..
Estou surpreendido de não ver nenhum comentário aqui. Mais um bom jogo. Cada vez com mais confiança. Decide quase sempre bem, é forte, bom tecnicamente e percebe o jogo. Não é um avançado "burro".
Alguém que o massacre em treinos de finalização. Caso melhore nesse aspeto, temos caso sério.
Alguém que o massacre em treinos de finalização. Caso melhore nesse aspeto, temos caso sério.
Eu acho que ele já é muito bom...
Muito bem a decidir os lances e a lutar pela bola com grande classe.
Acho que não vai ser avançado de procurar a profundidade .. Mas também vai evoluir a esse nível.
Acho que não vai ser avançado de procurar a profundidade .. Mas também vai evoluir a esse nível.
Excelente jogo..
Tem evoluído muito e quase não se tem falado dele
Tem evoluído muito e quase não se tem falado dele
O Evanilson é mais um exemplo de como o Sérgio não sabe evoluir jogadores. Oh wait...
Bom trabalho e bom jogo.
Daqui por um ano ninguém para o Pepê.
O ano passado andava tudo a perguntar pelo Evanilson.
Ainda por cima nem sequer sabem que o Pêpe se destacou, no Brasil, a jogar pela esquerda. Esquerda essa que tem só um Zé ruela qualquer chamado Luís Diaz a jogar.
Excelente jogo.. o nosso futebol evoluiu tanto desde que começou a ser aposta. Da uma fluidez de jogo e processos no jogo interior da equipa incrível. Joga muito bem em espaços curtos, apoios. A bola sai redondinha. Maaas quero ver mais, quero vê lo a ter mais confiança para ir para cima do defesa no 1x1 e quanto a mais golos ? A dinâmica ofensiva da equipa tem de melhorar. Os nossos avançados não sao muito bem servidos, até pq pisam zonas do terreno mais recuadas do que deveriam ..
É, parece que temos o Licá moreno na esquerda.
Vai crescendo com os minutos de jogo.